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OPINIONS

Brinksmanship in Greece: Debt Crisis 101

[Author’s note: It’s recently come to my attention that this column has been translated into Greek and posted on various Greek news sites. While I appreciate my readers, I want to make it very clear that I do not speak, read, or write Greek, and that no Greek translations of this column have been personally authorized by me. The English-language column on the Stanford Daily website (that is, the one you’re reading right now) is the only version of the column that I have examined and approved, and while I am not aware of what the Greek editions of my column actually say, I cannot and do not take any responsibility for any translation inaccuracies or other changes in the meaning of the column that may have occurred. Happy reading. (Winston Shi, February 9, 2015)]

 

The clock is ticking on Greece.

There’s not much time left until Greece will be unable to pay its bills, and yet the two sides of the struggle – the European financial institutions that own Greece’s debt and the newly elected Syriza political party  that wants forgiveness for some of that debt – are content to play chicken with each other with over 310 billion euros on the line.

The next few months will be critical for the future of the Eurozone, and, as such, for the financial stability of Europe itself. The precedents that the Greek affair will set have major implications for the other fiscally unstable countries in Europe. Will Europe blink and concede the principle of debt forgiveness in the Eurozone? If Europe sticks to its guns, what can Greece do in response? And where does America fit into this giant puzzle?

***

Syriza’s electoral promise is straightforward enough: Fifty cents on the dollar is better than nothing. Greece holds debt, Europe doesn’t want to lose that debt, and the European banks will give Greece a discount if it means they’ll get some of their money back. As the Greek finance minister put it, “We will have liquidity problems in March…then we’ll see how harsh Europe is.”

From Syriza’s standpoint, it’s a pretty canny plan. There is no official supranational police force that forces countries to repay their debts, unlike national law enforcement, which seizes assets to compensate bondholders. In short, Greece can default on its debt whenever it wants.

Moreover, politically, Syriza has little choice but to dare Europe to blink. In order to generate immediate budget surpluses to pay down Greece’s crippling debt, the previous government had slashed government programs and raised taxes to the point of making a very real dent in Greeks’ standard of living, comparable in scope to the Great Depression. Nominal GDP peaked at 242 billion euros in 2008; it’s below 200 billion today.

Running fiscal deficits and taking on debt was a Band-Aid that could not hold for long. Greece was probably never a 242-billion-euro economy in the first place. Nonetheless, the consequent upheaval and discontent is, not to put too fine a point on it, obvious — that is why Syriza is in power today.

***

Previously, policymakers have focused on how Greece can be saved from financial collapse, but now a purposeful default is now on the table. However, in going on the offensive, Syriza’s brinksmanship risks fatally redefining the Greek debt crisis. If the Greeks are willing to default, then Europe must consider what a Greek default would mean for Europe. And the answer is: not much.

Ironically, it is Greece’s weakness that makes it comparatively easy to handle. Greece owes a lot of money, but it’s still only 2 percent of the Eurozone economy. If the threat of a Greek default can belabor Europe into submission, what about larger countries? Portugal and Italy are in better shape than Greece, but both bear total debt burdens far greater than Greece’s. What if they decide to test the waters of brinksmanship themselves? Ditto for Spain, where the unemployment rate is at positively Grecian levels.

These countries have the economic leverage that Greece lacks: They can hold Europe hostage. And while these countries are in less danger of collapse, despite Syriza’s bluster (their economies are stronger, and as a fraction of GDP, their debt loads are smaller than Greece’s), even fractional debt forgiveness on their loans could be devastating losses for Europe.

Will Europe’s stronger countries accept that precedent? In Germany, Eurozone skeptics are already on the march. Europe will not give Syriza what it wants because there is little reason for it to do so. If the Eurozone operated in a vacuum, then the the so-called Grexit would soon be in the works.

***

But the Eurozone does not operate in a vacuum, and this is where America comes in. Greece likely won’t default and leave the euro, and Syriza likely won’t come away emptyhanded. And that has nothing to do with economics. It has everything to do with geopolitics.

If Syriza defaults, it may not be able to borrow in free financial markets, but it will still be able to borrow in places where the free market does not apply. Countries like China and Russia may bail out Greece in exchange for political favors. And if Syriza is willing to play the auctioneer, losing money on the deal may still be worth it if it buys Greece’s friendship. It’s no coincidence that immediately after Syriza won the election, Vladimir Putin invited Alexis Tsipiras, the victorious Syriza prime minister, to Moscow.

There is a reason why Greece is in NATO, and there is a reason why Greece was the first country Harry Truman pointed to when he proposed the Marshall Plan. Greece, along with Turkey, occupies an excellent strategic position in Europe. Along with Turkey, it is positioned to control Russian access to the Mediterranean. And during the Cold War, it was one of America’s most important missile bases. Aside from that, the thought of a NATO member being beholden to a country outside of NATO is patently unacceptable.

America will probably pressure Europe to accept a longer timeframe on Greek debt – in short, a refinancing. Both sides in the conflict will get to say that they got what they wanted – Greece will be able to lessen its austerity, and Europe will avoid writedowns on its debt. America may well have to give some concessions to Europe to make that happen. But I suppose that’s the price for being the leader of the free world.

Contact Winston Shi at wshi94 ‘at’ stanford.edu.

About Winston Shi

Winston Shi was the Managing Editor of Opinions for Volume 245 (February-June 2014). He also served as an opinions and sports columnist, a senior staff writer, and a member of the Editorial Board. A native of Thousand Oaks, California (the one place on the planet with better weather than Stanford), he graduated from Stanford in June 2016 with bachelor's and master's degrees in history. He is currently attending law school, where he preaches the greatness of Stanford football to anybody who will listen, and other people who won't.
  • readgreece.blogspot.com

    Great analysis and in line with my broader opinion about the outcome of the upcoming negotiation between Greece and its European partners. It is not a coincidence that the US officials are visiting Europe to exert pressure to European leaders. Apart from the obvious economic and financial risks which are now more “calculated” (but still subject to great uncertainty) than in 2010 or 2012, there is an underlying (and increasing) geopolitical risk that will destabilize the global balance of power. If Greece was to leave the euro, this could also lead to a change to the relative economic power of West vs East and US officials are very aware of this possibility, unlike the Germans who seem to be focusing more on the economic aspect.

  • Winston Shi

    I disagree that a Grexit would significantly alter the “relative economic power of West vs East” – as I said, Greece is only 2% of the eurozone’s economy. But there seems to be a very real alarmism being sounded, especially from Greece itself, with a clear aim towards amplifying the potential danger of a Grexit.

    In particular, Syriza is far too quick to say that Italy will go down in flames if Greece collapses, as the Greek finance minister recently claimed. I already pointed out that Italy is a far bigger economy than Greece, and indeed, a big economy can mitigate a large debt load to a certain extent; Japan’s debt levels would make Greece blush, but the Japanese economy is big enough to handle it. (It helps that Japan can print its own currency, but first and foremost Japan reassures investors and keeps its borrowing costs low by emphasizing its commitment to paying its debts; printing money is simply one method of accomplishing that. Unlike Syriza, Japan would not seriously consider defaulting.)

    There should be enough reserves in the ECB coffers to prevent a Grexit from becoming a regional contagion. In any case, Italy’s ability to finance its debts will be hurt far more from adopting the Syriza plank – that is to say, putting default on the bargaining table, thus causing borrowing costs to explode – than from any Greek collapse itself. Investors understand that the cases of Greece and Italy are, right now at least, fundamentally different.

    But Syriza is trying to stir up fears nonetheless. Why shouldn’t they? They have no reason to not sound the gongs of doom. If they can influence public opinion in the US, they can get useful leverage. But it’s not like the American public should take that at face value. Greece is more important than many Europeans think, to be sure, but America should not concede the sort of leverage that Syriza’s stated evaluation of Greece’s importance to politics and the global economy implies. If America steps in to help Greece, it must only be for the right price.

  • readgreece.blogspot.com

    Well I think we agree.
    Don’t you agree that a change in the geopolitical status quo is also translated in economic terms? It is not only a demonstration of power, it is also real business interests, no?
    (I am not talking about immediate economic/financial impacts like banks’ exposures etc. but more like longer term strategic interests).

  • Winston Shi

    I disagree – the potential impact of a Grexit hardly warrants the sort of rhetoric that has been coming from Greece as of late.

    Clearly geopolitics have an effect on economics, but the effect looks to be very limited. I don’t see how there would be any truly significant change in the economic system that Greece could cause that would be worth abandoning the principle of debt repayment for. Yes, there have been previous haircuts, but they came with a promise to fundamentally reform the Greek system of government and social contract, which Syriza doesn’t seem interested in doing.

    Anyhow, you are talking about the possibility that a Grexit would “destabilize the global balance of power,” and I don’t see how that can possibly be the case. Greece is a useful ally, but it’s not “global balance of power” useful.

  • 1FrancisofAssissi1

    Good piece, Sir.

    Just a few quick points:

    (1) Syriza has been labelled extremist but is, in effect, asking for nothing less than the programme implemented by US President Roosevelt. No-one sensible calls Roosevelt an extremist these days as the proof of the pudding is in the eating — the US economy recovered and Americans were able to regain their dignity and get back to work.

    (2) Syriza has refused 7 billion euros in the next tranche of a eurozone bailout because it regards such an injection as throwing good money after bad. It insists that only radical reforms and a rearrangement of the debt to make it viable will work. Refusing to accept 7 billion euros is hardly the act of a profligate government, but more the action of a responsible administration that wants to get Greeks back to work, paying taxes and paying off their debts.

    (3) Greece is in the fortunate position of having a friend in the United States and its administration. True, they haven’t put their hand in their pocket to bail out the eurozone, and why should they, but they have seen the injustices that may condemn certain eurozone nations to eternal austerity and depression, and they have asked Germany (the recipient of US generosity after World War II) to allow Greece to get back to work.

    We look forward to more incisive articles from you and congratulations once again from all at Notre Dame on a polished, balanced, correct and informative piece.

  • readgreece.blogspot.com

    Btw, I am saying that there is a risk of destabilization, not a certainty about it. Under certain conditions, this could happen.

  • 1FrancisofAssissi1

    I think you underestimate the ability of a Grexit to act as a precedent and destabilise the eurozone and the global economy, given that any reaction would hurt free trade and this in turn would hurt the US economy.

    Imagine a small state in the US opting to depart the dollar zone in order to get the Fed off its back and get its people out of depression and back to work.

    This would set a precedent that other states in the US could follow.

    Far fetched? Not really, because so far the Fed, unlike the European Central Bank, has to date ALWAYS come to the aid of failing states.

    Greece has made clear it wishes to remain in the eurozone and the Atlantic Alliance, but cannot continue on a Brussels-dictated path of austerity and depression that has left half the population in poverty unnecessarily.

  • 1FrancisofAssissi1

    You say Greece is a useful ally but you cannot see how it could change the global balance of power.

    You are right. But consider this scenario:

    Greece and Cyprus, which already have ties with Russia and China, offer Moscow naval bases in exchange for aid and trade.

    Russia has never been able to get a permanent naval anchorage in the Mediterranean, and its Syrian facility is small, limited in potential and unstable.

    Securing stable land bases in Greece and Cyprus would allow Putin to extend the reach of the Black Sea Fleet (now strengthened with the annexation of Crimea) into the Mediterranean and within easy reach of traditional US allies such as Israel and the Gulf states.

    Such a move would allow Putin to claim, quite rightly, that US power is being diminished and Russian power is expanding.

    To see the Russian tricolour flying from a NATO nation at the height of the Ukrainian crisis is not the best message that President Obama can send to those nations liberal democracies looking to the United States for protection.

    China is also on the prowl for military alliances in the strategic Mediterranean Sea, having previously had naval bases in countries such as Albania.

    China already has strong trade and investment ties with Greece — for example it has bought a big chunk of the Port of Piraeus, one of the busiest in the Mediterranean — and would not be averse to a formal military alliance.

    What message would the expansion of Russia and China in traditional NATO waters send to the world?

    It would not be a good day for democracy if this were allowed to happen, and all because the Greeks want to get back to work, just like the Americans wanted to get back to work under President Roosevelt (and, dare I say it, under President Obama?)

  • readgreece.blogspot.com

    I was thinking of a very similar scenario.
    The negotiations behind closed doors usually make use of these kind of arguments, official statements of course don’t.

  • Erol Riza

    Very little debt is held by banks so maybe you want to revisit your views

  • 1FrancisofAssissi1

    Italy’s debt is primarily to Italian investors, just as Japan’s debt is primarily to Japanese investors.

    Greece’s debt however is primarily to pay off the bad loans of French and German banks.

    This was translated into debt to fellow eurozone countries when Paris and Berlin decided that it was more important to pay off the banks (!) instead of letting them pay the price for their poor investment decisions.

  • readgreece.blogspot.com

    But you are referring to the immediate short-term financial impact. As myself or @1FrancisofAssissi1:disqus has mentioned there can be other consequences not obvious at first (which later on can be translated in economic terms…). Think of it as “effects/consequences very sensitive to the change in the initial conditions”, something like the butterfly effect that could happen with a certain probability if a Grexit was to occur.

  • WiseSpartan

    An interesting read of view on geopolitics and game theory.

    If Greece were to romance with Russia in a practical sense (highly unlikely) and the scenario envisaged below realized; namely Greece giving access to Russia, the Americans would wink their eye and the Turks would invade.

    Something similar happened in 1974 and Cyprus remains part occupied.

    Let’s not depart from the realms of reality too much as it becomes absurd. The Greek people have an affinity with their European kin and Greece is a dependable nation, as it ways has, for its allies and partners. Greece has been fighting on the same victorious side as the U.S., the UK, and France in WWI, WWII, and host of other global conflicts (Korea, Vietnam, etc).

  • X. Ρέκος
  • Winston Shi

    Reposting this from the top of the article – WS

    [Author’s note: It’s recently come to my attention that this column
    has been translated into Greek and posted on various Greek news sites.
    While I appreciate my readers, I want to make it very clear that I do
    not speak, read, or write Greek, and that no Greek translations of this
    column have been personally authorized by me. The English-language
    column on the Stanford Daily website (that is, the one you’re reading right now) is the only version of the column that I have examined and approved, and while I am not aware of what the Greek editions of my column actually say, I
    cannot and do not take any responsibility for any translation
    inaccuracies or other changes in the meaning of the column that may have
    occurred. Happy reading. (Winston Shi, February 9, 2015)]

  • readgreece.blogspot.com

    And just to add a bit more in the discussion.

  • dimis

    Mr. Shi, as you said about the tranlation in Greek,for me is the contrary:my english is limited,but
    i am going to try,because i have a question.Greece went for help, maybe on exaggerated figures
    in state finances & if this is true (back in 2010),you imagine that what Mr.Shi thinks today, specialists in Moscow, Berlin and your country, did not predict it, back then? I mean that if the orthodox people of Cyprus and Greece go bankrupt, they are not going to seek help from the orthodox Russians, if they are pushed out of Europe? You think that they have so short shight?

  • GreekWatch

    From today’s Wall Street Journal:
    Headline: U.S. Urges Eurozone to Avoid Stifling Greek Economy
    – Deal Possible That Satisfies Weary Greeks and the Country’s Creditors
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/us-urges-eurozone-to-avoid-stifling-greek-economy-1423578419?cb=logged0.6556884256091172
    A good call, sir!

  • Aris Katsaris

    The Greek political establishment has been completely in the pocket of the Kremlin for many years now — this had been made officially known atleast since 2007 when the Power Audit of EU-Russia relations declared Greece and Cyprus to be Russia’s trojan horses inside the EU.

    The only thing that has changed is that Greece has now stopped pretending, and that Russia is asking its now openly Russia-friendly Greek government to openly seek to hurt the EU by shattering the Eurozone, as retribution for the EU’s pressure on Russia because of Ukraine.

  • WiseSpartan

    This is nonsense. You are overestimaring Russia’s influence in terms of it’s economic capacity and, at the same time, underestimating the strength of the NATO alliance and the intelligence agencies of the U.S. and others who know what the Greeks are up to before they even know themselves.

    Greece’s economic problems cannot be said to have been meticulously contrived as part of some grandiose campaign to weaken the Euro.

    Insofar as Greece’s relations with Russia, they are positive as Greece and Russia have nothing separating them. On the country, both countries see a benefit in associating with the other. There is nothing wrong or inappropriate for a country to have bilateral relations. Just yesterday Putin visited Egypt and was well received by General Assissi. This just means that General Assissi is strengthening his diplomacy and enhancing his contacts. It doesn’t imply that Russia is the preferred ally for Egyt as the US government assistance is greater.

  • Aris Katsaris

    Greece takes Russia’s side on every issue of foreign policy, Greece sabotaged its own coal industry so that it could buy Russian gas at higher prices than almost anyone else in Europe, the Greek political establishment tolerated and enabled the Russia-loving neonazis of “Golden Dawn”, when Anna Politkosvkaya was murdered and every western government in the world was expressing its dismay at that death what the then-Greek Prime Minister formally expressed was his well-wishes to Putin for his birthday…

    Now the Greek government is filled with people (of both the far-right and the far-left) who openly support Russia’s aggression against Ukraine, and you still pretend at this? … When you see Russian military bases getting established on Greek soil, will you still be pretending?

    Greece is still in the EU, for the same reason that it’s still in NATO — to help sabotage them at the demand of its Russian masters.

  • WiseSpartan

    In a world of diplomacy vested interests run rife, it is quite normal for political players to romance with one another so as to seek maximum leverage. The U.S. and other dominant players rule by guns and money whilst smaller nations exact influence by philandering a little so as to exact a better offer. Greece being pushed to the edge with threats of bankruptcy by its supposed allies and friends is no exception.

    As far as facts in the ground go, Greece has a history of fighting on the same sides as the US, UK, and France throughout the twentieth century (WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, etc). Moreover, Greece is an active member of NATO with higher military spending than most its allies in terms of per capita military obligations. There are also American bases in Greece that have been active there since the end of WWII. In view of the above, one cannot argue the contrary. One must not confuse political juxtapositioning with the facts on the ground.

    The above is in reference to the Greek state admit were. If you are referring to the Greek people a while, sure it can be argued there is a cultural and religious affinity with the people of Russia that predates any relationship with any other major western power. One cannot dismiss 1,000 years of a shared Byzantine history.

    However regardless of all the above it is evident that you have a pro NATO/US bias in your thinking, especially as you refer to the Russians as aggressors invading Ukraine. Surely, that’s the prevailing view of the West but that does not necessarily make a true and accurate reflection of the dynamics on the ground.

    Do you honestly believe Putin woke up one day and just decided to take over Crimea and parts of the Ukraine because they were there for the taking? Do you honestly believe that he thought it to be in his nation’s interest to start a war with the West and be subjected to escalating sanctions and diplomatic isolation?

    Has it not crossed your mind that perhaps your beloved US with it’s puppet states may be encroaching on Russia’s historical and cultural space? Did you expect the Russians to allow NATO to encircle them? Do you know where the Black Sea fleet is and its importance to Russia? Can you imagine what would happen if a future Ukraine under NATO refused to renew supply to Russia for its massive military arsenal stationed there? Was It in the script that Putin was supposed sit idle and allow this to happen like Yeltsin did before? Perhaps he was supposed to be proactive in selling his nation completely like that traitor Gorbachev?

    Most Greeks are conscious of these realities as well of their self serving needs to remain within the western sphere. Just because it is in the best interest of the Greek state to play charades with the Americans and others it doesn’t mean that Greeks are ignorant of the power play in the background. Do you think the Americans seek what is best for the Greek people? it is an unholy alliance like every other alliance any state has with one another…

    I suggest you do yourself a favour and cleanse your mind from all the US propaganda that has come into your head.
    l
    If you are a true Greek patriot, you would be giving an honest critique of Greece and the Greek mindset (good or bad) but you would not be speaking in the manner that you are suggesting Greece is some sort of traitor in the midst. That is shameful and repugnant.

    Dimitris

  • Aris Katsaris

    You illustrate perfectly your imperialist ideology — you don’t give a DAMN about the concept of national sovereignty, you don’t give a damn about established borders, you don’t give a damn about law or democracy either — all your absurd babble tries to distract that yours and Putin’s motivation is just to “What Russia will want, Russia will do, and you are powerless to stop it.”

    Russia is something something a dozen times worse in Ukraine than what Turkey did to Cyprus — and yet you have the AUDACITY, you direct supporter of the Russians in their own Russian Attila to blame Americans for not intervening to stop the Turks from invading Cyprus — seriously???? You don’t see the hypocrisy here, at all? Turkey had *better* excuses in Cyprus, than Russia has in Ukraine — after all Cyprus was suffering an *actual* attempted external military coup from the the Greek dictatorship, not the pretense-coup that Russia speaks about in Kiev.

    Crimea wasn’t “acquired through war” from Russia, Russia had *gifted* Crimea to Ukraine, and had since pretended to recognize the established borders. Russia didn’t seem to mind using Crimean (and Eastern Ukrainian) votes to install its own puppets in the presidency of Ukraine, and thus help control ALL of Ukraine. When this political influence was no longer sufficient, Russia moved to the stage of direct military control.

    But that argument is again pretense on your part — you’re just defending the indefensible Hitleric aggression of your Fuhrer, Vladimir Putin, and pulling every piece of bullshit you can think of to so defend it — at other times in your disjointed babble it’s supposedly the historicity of the region, at others that supposedly Russia was being threatened from NATO expansion, at others that Ukrainian sovereignty wasn’t really real in the first place.

    All that is bullshit, all that is arguing backwards — you’ve arrived to the conclusion that “I must support Russia, no matter what” and you’re pulling absurd excuses out of your unprincipled ass. When did you, before your Fuhrer Vladimir Putin said so, ever called it acceptable for the borders of Ukraine to be redrawn as such?

    When Russian armies start marching through Greece, will you be using again the “Greece didn’t have true sovereignty anyway, so it’s okay if they conquer us”? All you pretend-patriots and pretend-nationalists, ironically always seek a foreign masters. The same people who supported a German imperialist master in the 1940s ended up supporting the American imperialist master in the 1960s and 1970s — and the people who supported the junta back then, now support a Russian master.

    And only those of use who are true imperialist are actually opposing ALL those imperialists and ALL those imperialisms. The rest of you just pretend at anti-imperialism, to hide your support of one imperialist side or another.

    ” I am not too sure about that because it is just as likely that you are a Russian hater…. perhaps your parents fled the Ukraine a long time ago and you were raised in Greece.”

    No, all my ancestors are Greeks, and Greece-born as far back as I know. Your confusion stems from the fact that I’m actually principled in my *real* opposition to imperialism, and my *actual* support for democracy and human rights, and my *actual* patriotism and internationalism alike. You’re confused because so far you’ve probably only met fake anti-imperialists — people who pretend at anti-imperialism just to hide that they’re on the side of some *other* imperialism.

    I’m an anti-imperialist. I opposed American imperialism in Iraq, and I oppose Russian imperialism in Ukraine, and I opposed Serbian imperialism in Bosnia, and I opposed Albanian imperialism in Kosovo.

    Does that clarify it for you, or is your imperialist mentality not able to comprehend an actually true anti-imperialist?

  • WiseSpartan

    Aris,

    To continue on from where you left…. I will tell you precisely who you are (assuming your FB profile is legit).

    You are an unemployed and disgruntled nerd who wears glasses and is overweight. You’re in your twenties but have a BDI (body mass index) analogous with someone 15 years older than you. You find solace on the internet where you spend copious amounts of time taking up righteous positions on universal matters you really have scant understanding of. The responses you receive from commentators such as myself seem to stimulate and arouse your senses and give you a sense of purpose with which to justify your miserable existence. In between all these commentaries you probably pause for some downloading of porn as this most likely gives you a release from all that pent up frustration which ordinarily nature denies you (based again on your appearance on FB).

    Listen young man, your commentary is verbal diarrhea as it lacks consistency and coherence. Nobody gives a toss as to what your ideological positions are or what mine are.

    If you have an issue with imperialist policies of countries that’s just too bad as pretty much that describes the whole of Europe and north America at one time or another. Rightly or wrongly power dictates developments and the big fish eat the small. This has existed since time in memorial and none of your disjointed lleftist/socialist/communist myths you’ve learned in Greece will change. You come across more of an anarchist than a lefty actually and you probably subscribe to a world where you can sit on your fat ass and enjoy your decadent life at the expense of some German taxpayer and meet your loony friends in anticipation of some demonstration in downtown Athens so you can throw tour Molotov coxktails at the police.

    You have a command of the English language better than the average Greek and this has, somehow, given you confidence to engage with others and talk sh*t!

    Sadly for Greece, if the 1940s were ever to rear their ugly head again and Greece was attacked, you and others like you would be sitting in Internet cafes playing with yourselves.

    You represent a gutless and spoiled generation y that has had everything given to you in the hand. I bet you live at home and sponge of your parents.

    Skatopapara!

  • Aris Katsaris

    “You are an unemployed and disgruntled nerd who wears glasses and is overweight. You’re in your twenties”

    I’m in my mid-30s (the photo you got from my facebook profile is old) and quite well employed as a senior programmer. Gee, you managed to figure out from my photograph (where I am overweight and wear glasses), that I am overweight and wear glasses. Big congrats for that amazingly marvellous insight. You managed to figure from my attending a university on computer science and from my discussion of various nerdy issues that I’m a ‘nerd’. Again a marvellous insight.

    ” you have an issue with imperialist policies of countries that’s just too bad as pretty much that describes the whole of Europe and north America at one time or another. ”

    Yes, but not all imperialisms are alike, and the current Hitleric imperialism of Russia that tramples nations underfoot isn’t the same *type* of imperialism as the current Capitalist imperialism of Western Europeans and Americans.

    “Rightly or wrongly power dictates developments and the big fish eat the small.”

    And what makes a person *good* and *ethical* and *principled* is the ability to actually care about whether it’s ‘rightly’ or ‘wrongly’ instead of dismissing it.

    Now you finally fucking acknowledge that all you previous claims of how Russia was on the right was merely a pretense — and all that matters for you is that you believe it *strong*. “Rightly or wrongly” you say, but you have lost any interest in pretending that your side is on the right. Because you can’t. Because Russia and your Russia-obeying lackeys are so obviously on the wrong, by any moral judgment possible, that you cause the disgust and loathing all over the world.

    “This has existed since time in memorial and none of your disjointed lleftist/socialist/communist myths you’ve learned in Greece will change. You come across more of an anarchist than a lefty actually and you probably subscribe to a world where you can sit on your fat ass and enjoy your decadent life at the expense of some German taxpayer and meet your loony friends in anticipation of some demonstration in downtown Athens so you can throw tour Molotov cocktails at the police”

    You fucking nazi moron. The Molotov-throwing pseudo-anarchist and supposed “leftists” in Greece belong to Russia through SYRIZA, same way that the knife-murdering neonazis (and other far-right-wingers) ALSO belong to Russia through neonazi party “Golden Dawn” and other people like Kammenos and Karatzaferis.

    All the extremists in Greece, from the arsonists that burned Athens, to the terrorists that killed politicians, to the neonazis that murder immigrants and Greeks alike —- THEY ALL LOVE RUSSIA.

    And in the middle, those of us who do NOT murder, who do not torture, who do NOT burn, we are the ones who are in favour of European democracy.

    That by alone indicates the vast moral difference between which people are drawn to support Europe and which people are drawn to support Moscow.

    Now a Russia-loving coalition (SYRIZA on the left, Kammenos on the Right) has come to power, and their alliance is purely based on how much Russia-loving and Russia-obeying they are.

    So much for your absurd delusions about leftism or anarchism as supposedly opposing your Russian masters. It’s progressive European democracy and only progressive European democracy that opposes your Russian masters.

    “but you and I both know that I have described you to a tee!”

    You could have gotten a better description, including embarrassing things, if you’d spent two minutes to google me up. Instead you called me a molotov-throwing *anarchist*, when the molotov-throwing “anarchists” is what first made me loathe certain pseudo-lefist parties like SYRIZA.

  • WiseSpartan

    Aris,

    At the end of the day, I couldn’t care less who you are and where you belong in the ideological scheme of things….

    And, for the record, I am neither a Putin sympathizer, a Russia lover, a NATO fan, an anarchist, or a NAZI advocate. I don’t give a damn about politics at the end of the day as I have other personal matters in my life where I choose to direct my attention to.

    My aggravation commenced at the point in which you sought to label me as a Nazi and/or admirer of Putin as if, somehow, I am on his payrol. Another source of annoyance was when you suggested that tne country in which you live (Greece) is somehow a traitor that conspires to bring about the downfall of the West; a tool of Vladimir Putin that he can manipulate as he sees fit.

    Such allegations are not only unfounded and absurd, they are treacherous as you are going online talking down the very country that has given you your very existence.

    I think that most moderate (sensible) Greeks would take offense if they knew someone like you behaves this way. In a metaphorical sense, you remind me of Ephialtis who led the Persion garrison to the Spartans in a surprise attack.

    It is ironic that a Greek of the diaspora (myself) takes the time to defend Greece’s claims and clear up some of the stereotypes and misinformation that circulates from people such as yourself who -ironically- live in Greece.

    Just because someone expresses a view different to yours, somehow you conveniently pidgeon hole them as it suits you.

    Where have I explicitly endorsed the taking of innocent lives? Just because I provide an alternative side to the events in Ukraine that is free from the US/NATO spin does this somehow incriminate me?

    You show complere ignorance if you do not understand the real motivations behind the conflict in the Ukraine. Ukraine is a proxy between two larger interest groups that aim at one another’s downfall… nobody in the West gives a damn about the people in Ukraine and they never did.

    Yes, Putin had his own stooge there first and the Americans and Europeans -under the pretense of democracy- supported the opposition to appoint their own stooge instead. The conflict that has followed is what they call power-politic between the NATO (ie the Americans) and Russia.

    In your ideal world, Putin should accept the ‘free and demkcratic’ elections and be prepared to take new orders from the government in Ukraine including and not limited to being prepared to cede access to the Black Sea and forsake Russia’s military bases there.

    I’m not sure what planet you live in, but that is not something any Russian president accept and, perhaps, the skirmishes in eastern Ukraine is a retaliation to wear down Ukraine and slow the encroachment of NATO.

    Why on earth would you expect something different from a Russia acting in self defense? Why didn’t Russia attempt to invade and seize territory from Ukraine earlier when their own puppet government was running the show?

    Anyway, I will allow you to have the last say as this exercise of back and forth replies is a real waste of my time that is not going to advance my cause.

    Dimitris

    PS

    It would be nice if you used the same zeal to support your very nation in international forums rather than to disparage it.

  • Aris Katsaris

    “Such allegations are not only unfounded and absurd”

    I have founded them well enough, with a ton of evidence I mentioned, and I could mention a ton more. Not only that but the 2007 power audit of the EU-Russia relations also declared Greece and Cyprus to be the trojan horses of Russia inside the EU.

    “It is ironic that a Greek of the diaspora (myself) takes the time to defend Greece’s claims and clear up some of the stereotypes and misinformation that circulates from people such as yourself who -ironically- live in Greece”

    Actually your utter ignorance of what is happening in Greece, to the extent that you didn’t even know of the political establishment’s blatant support of Russia, is quite explained by the fact that you aren’t actually in Greece.

    “Just because someone expresses a view different to yours, somehow you conveniently pidgeon hole them as it suits you”

    Your shameless hypocrisy has no limits, doesn’t it. First of all, you pigeonhole me as pro-US, when so far I never said a word in favour of the USA throughout the thread — you just *assume* (like your Russian masters) that everyone who opposes Russian imperialism must be a tool of the Americans instead. Then you’ve successively tried to guess me as a Ukrainian immigrant to Greece (false), as unemployed (false), as an anarchist (false), as being in my 20s (false), and in the other forum you followed me to, you then implied me a follower of the Communist Party of Greece (false).

    In these you don’t only illustrate your insanity, you illustrate your political ignorance about Greece, since you kept naming pro-Russia political forces, rather than any pro-European ones.

    To keep matters short, and stop further ludicrous guesses on your part, in the last elections I voted for ‘Potami’, it being the most pro-European political party among the parties with a chance to enter parliament.

    “You show complere ignorance if you do not understand the real motivations behind the conflict in the Ukraine. Ukraine is a proxy between two larger interest groups that aim at one another’s downfall… ”

    The UKRAINIAN NATION has its own existence — which imperialists like you and Putin refuse to acknowledge. It’s only *your* Hitleric kind of people who see everything as a zero-sum game, where every lesser nation should be conquered by one imperial nation or another.

    “As far as the Greece is concerned, it is an active member embedded in the western sphere of influence and this is not even up for debate.”

    I’d say the opposite, that it’s not even up for debate anymore whether Greece is the puppet of Russia. It’s so obviously the puppet of Russia that it’s not even funny that you attempt to deny it, it’s just sad. It was up for debate ten years ago, it’s not up for debate anymore.

    “In your ideal world, Putin should accept the ‘free and demkcratic’ elections and be prepared to take new orders from the government in Ukraine including and not limited to being prepared to cede access to the Black Sea and forsake Russia’s military bases there.”

    It wouldn’t have been demanded of the Russians to leave, but yes, if such had been the demand, the Russians should have left. That’s what “national sovereignty” means.

    When Greece asked the American military base in Hellenikon to close and the Americans to leave, the base closed, and the Americans left.

    NATO hasn’t forced any nation to join it, nor has NATO forced any nation to remember inside it.

    But all this is again bullshit. If you were at all informed, you’d know that it wasn’t NATO that Russia was fearing, it was the EU Association Aggreement — but it sounds scarier when you mention a military alliance like NATO, you couldn’t even *pretend* that the EU isn’t seeking peaceful relation, so that’s why you and other Russian propagandists pretend that it was the approach NATO that Russia was fearing, rather than the EU association agreement.

    But despite this pretense of yours, it was called “Euromaidan” and not “Natomaidan”

    “Why didn’t Russia attempt to invade and seize territory from Ukraine earlier when their own puppet government was running the show?”

    LOL, exactly because their own puppet government was running the show, and so they were controlling all of Ukraine?

    If Europe and Russia are ethically equally imperialists, can you explain why European tanks aren’t invading Greece now? The answer is that not all imperialism are equal — the capitalists who wants to *sell you stuff* and buy your resources, isn’t the same as the militarists who wants to conquer your country with tanks for the vainglory of the motherland.

  • WiseSpartan

    Listen here Mr Know-It-All-ParanoiaExtreme,

    I couldn’t care less about Vladimir Putin and you don’t give a toss about the people of Ukraine.

    For what it is worth, I wish the people of Ukraine the very best in the same manner as I wish the very best on the good people of the world.

    I have never insisted in putting a case forward for Putin. Rather, I acknowldge the dirty political games big countries play and, as a result, provided you with an alternative perspective from the other party. Somehow, you have taken this personally and taken upon yourself to portray the plight of the Ukrainian people…

    I am more concerned about the plight of my forebears in Greece and I am dismayed at how treacherous you have been all along.

    Presumably you were born in Greece and have grown up there to Greek parents. Atleast, that is what you have mentioned in a previous post. If this is true, it is proposterous that you take position in international blogs such as this to spew venom against “your” people.

    Evidently, you care more about the people of Ukraine than the people of Greece.

    You have demostrated beyond any reasonable doubt that you are a traitor to the Greek state.

    For your information, my primary allegiance is with Australia as this is the country in which I grew up in and which has extended to me equality of opportunity. Neverhtless, I was born in Greece to Greek parents and also take pride in my Greek lineage. Ironically, even I feel offended that someone like you would be pissing on the Greek nation when you have more reason than me to defend your people’s honour.

    Greeks are a polarized lot, but regardless of which side of the politcal spectrum they sit on, they would all unite to condem a traitor like you!

    SHAME ON YOU…. YOU ARE A DISGRACE TO GREECE.

    PS

    1. Even if you had a mail-order-bride from the Ukraine, this still does not justify your posture.

    2. Are you paid by some external entity to undermine Greek national interests?

  • Aris Katsaris

    “and you don’t give a toss about the people of Ukraine.”

    Yes, I do.

    “I have never insisted in putting a case forward for Putin.”

    Except that you did, shamelessly pretending that he’s on the defense, even while he’s carving up an independent nation like Ukraine, in a more blatant act of aggression than has ever been seen on Europe since the time of Hitler. SHAME ON YOU, YOU APOLOGIST OF HITLERIC INVADERS. If you lived in Hitler’s time, people like you would be sure to excuse his invasion of Poland by saying that he was feeling encircled by the allies of the British Empire.

    “I am more concerned about the plight of my forebears in Greece and I am dismayed at how treacherous you have been all along”

    Then you should be concerned about how the agents of Kremlin led Greece to bankruptcy — e.g. sabotaging the local coal industry, and any Western or local Greek industrial or tourist investment, just so they could have Russia and China buy up juicy bits of land in Greece, and us buy expensive Russian gas oil. Western investments in goldmines — sabotaged, sold to Russia-aligned oligarchs. The biggest seaport of Greece, sold to Russia’s ally, China (though Russia keeps enough neonazis close by, that if China ever breaks up in their alliance with Russia, the neonazis are sure to remove the Chinese on the basis of their master). The railroads, sold to Russia.

    Why don’t you care about the plight of Greece, as *caused* by Russia? Why don’t you care about the Russia-loving neonazis that have killed many Greeks and immigrants alike? Why don’t you care about the Russia-loving leftists that burned down Athens? Why don’t you care about the Russia-loving terrorists that have murdered West-supporting politicians like Bakoyianni?

    So much about caring about the plight of the Greek people — you only care about the plight of the Greek people if you can blame it on the *West*, not about that very big portion of plight that can be blamed on Russia instead.

    “this to spew venom against “your” people.”

    I spew venom against my *government* and the country’s political establishment, which doesn’t have the Greek people’s interests in mind, but only the Kremlin’s interests. That you consider my badmouthing the government “treasonous” shows very clearly your fascist mentality.

    The Greek people have been *victims* of the government’s Russia-obedient treason against them.

    “1. Even if you had a mail-order-bride from the Ukraine, ”

    I do not. My support for Ukraine is the support I’d give to all peaceful nations that attempt to resist the Hitleric military invasion of an aggressor.

    Scumbag fascists like yourself don’t actually *get* the concept of being a principled anti-imperialist, that’s why you’re always confused when people can *actually* hate military imperialism *without* this being a mere pretense in support of some other imperialism.

    “2. Are you paid by some external entity to undermine Greek national interests?”

    No, I’m not paid by anyone to speak these views, whether foreign or domestic — nor am I undermining Greek national interests, since all the Russia-obeying traitors in Greece is what is currently most undermining Greek national interests.

    In fact, if I can be accused of anything, it’s that my hatred of Russia stems in great part from my patriotism in seeing how it has harmed my own nations, instead of *pure* anti-imperialism.

  • WiseSpartan

    Vladimir Putin is the president of the Russian Federation and, in his capacity, has a specific responsibility and role to play. He is not Obama, Merkel, you, or me.

    I do not endorse nor condemn his activities as I do not have a complete account of the picture in terms of what instigates his behaviours and whether or not he is acting aggressively or defensively or a combination of both. Unless you has access to special inside information Aris, you are also not in a position to know about the real-politic behind the scenes. At best, you are offering a speculative view that is no better or worse than the view of another on the same subject.

    I am saddened when I see innocent people caught up in the conflict and I condemn all clandestine activities equally and without exception that escalate hostilities. I am not advocating that the world should sit iddle and allow atrocities to take place, however the problem we have is that there is no real adjudicator (honest broker) who can deliberate on such matters that is disinterested from the state of play. Are you suggesting that the motives of the Euro-Atlantic alliance in Ukraine is purely altrustic?

    Naturally I would prefer Greece to remain firmly within the western sphere of influence for many reasons that are beyond the scope of this essay. This does not imply, however, that Greece’s Euro-Atlantic partners do not have motives of their own in Ukraine that do not come to the expense of Russia’s national interests in its immediate environment. For instance, I mentioned to you before that Russia’s Black Sea fleet is stationed in Crimea and by allowing Ukraine to slip its hold, Russia loses out in its access to the Black Sea. Incidentally, Crime and the Black Sea region have always been traditional areas of Russian control. You mentioned in a previous post that Russia “gifted” this to Ukraine. This is totally untrue. How many countries do you know off that just cede territories and offer them as presents? You did not mention if, in gifting Crimea to Ukraine, Russia tied it up in gift wrapping with a bon-bon! For your information, when Crimea was “handed” to Ukraine, it was done so by the commnist regime of the USSR and not by a responsbile Russian government on behalf of the Russian people! When the USSR collapsed, it all happened in such a fulry that these and other issues were not properly dealth with. Besides, the Russian people were on their knees in the early 1990s and the main global priority at the time was to avert a nuclear disaster by accident. It is important to note also that, at the time, Yeltsin capitulated to the superior American masters of his and sold his country short. This is not to say that in 2015 Russia is entitled to regain its lost territories by force. On the other hand, it is arguable if NATO should be encroaching upon the territories surrounding Russia when clearly this is likely to instigate trouble in the region. NATO was formed supposedly to protect the free world from the spread of Communism. Russia is no longer a Communist state a logical question arises why it that NATO should be expanding to Russia’s door?

    I concede Greek governments and vested interest groups along with significant segments of the Greek population have brought Greece’s current problems upon themselves. In fact when I make this point in various forums I get scolded by fellow Greek compatriots who wrongly categorise me as being a Nazi/German sympathiser for merely stating a fact. This does not deter me as I believe it is more patriotic to speak the truth, even if it hurts one’s sensibilities, rather than to wave a flag in nationalistic fervour. I only offer candid critisim to people I care about or to a subject matter close to heart.

    Having said this, there is an important distinction to be made between offering a candid appraisal of a situation on the one hand, with engaging in innuendo suggesting that one’s country is complicit in undermining the integrity of an alliance, whether the EU or NATO, that it is a firm member of and enjoys the benefits of its association. This is scandalous in the least and quite unpatriotic bordering treacherous.

    Your hatred for the Russian government is so pronounced that it would suggest that you, yourself, must have first hand experience of Russian aggression. It is highly unlikely for any Greek to espouse such a strong dislike for the Russian government when, most likely, a great many Ukrainians would not go to such lengths as they recognise there is no real enminty amongst the people of Russia and Ukraine and are fully cognizant of the international dynamics to this conflict. As far as I know there is great similarities between the people of Ukraine and Russia in every respect linguistically, culturally, and through bloodlines. Even to this day, ordinary people from the Ukraine and Russia get along just fine. The issue between the two nations has clear political undertones that is representative of the hegemonic power faults between the Euro-Atlantic alliance of the West and Russia’s influence of the East. As we all know, Russia never wanted Ukraine to fall within the influence of the western alliance and manuevered in every way possible to hinder such a possibility. On the other hand, the West (through the US) ignored Russia’s concerns and took the challenge to the Russians head on under the guise of a democratic Ukraine being empowered to choose its own destiny. Regardless of whatever rights Ukraine has in the determination of its own affairs, the Russians determined that his was not an eventuality they could afford to accept. Who are you Aris to tell Vladimir Putin that he contravened international law? Are you suggesting the national interest of Russia was best served by welcoming Ukraine’s fold into NATO? Is this how you would have acted if you were in charge of the once mighty Russian army?

    If you dislike imperialism per se, you may consider directing much of your attention to a myriad of problem situations in the world where the EU, the US, and other Western countries are complicit in continuing the subjugation of people in their traditional lands. One notable example is the plight of the hapless Palestinians who are kept like animals in captivity and bombed to oblivion if and when they dare challenge their occupier. What do you have to say about Israel and the politics of the Zionist machine? Are you saddened by the suppression of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and the denial of their repeated pleas for self-determination? What is the prevailing policy of your Euro-masters in this regard and, are any of the countries in the NATO alliance complicit directly or indiretly for the denial of sovereignty, denial of civil liberties, etc? Should the Greek government lambast the US and Israel openly in international forums consistently as you advocate they should speak up against Russia’s imperialist ways? Some interesting questions here for you Aris…. see how you can worm your way out of these ones….. ???? What’s the view of “To Potami”…. is the river going to cleanse all these problems of the world and bring ever lasting peace where we can all kiss and hug and sing kumbaya???

    Speaking about Greece’s supposed treachery against its EU and NATO partners, what about the treachery of Greece’s supposed alliance partners as against Greece? Why is it that many countries in the EU along with the US have recognised FYROM with the name “Macedonia”? I suspect the plight of the Ukrainians is more important to you than Greece’s national concerns over the sovereignty of her borders and dignity of her people Furthermore, why is it that the UK nationals are allowed to buy property in occupied Cyprus when he regime their supposedly is not recognised by London? Whilst on the subject of Russia, here is one for the irony books…. what about the decision of the British Museum (without the slightest acquiescence from the UK government) to lend the Parthenon marble sculptures to the Hermitage museum in St Petersburg (Russia) at time when Greek calls for their return have been met with the UK government’s disdain? Remembering of course that it was argued at the same time that moving such priceless objects around was hazardous.

    Aris, if you wish to have a frank debate on imperialism the world over, I challenge you any time, any place, in English or Greek, or even in Japanese if you like. But, you will be opening yourself up and you will be forced to go back to the drawing board and rethink your ideas through.

    Malaka, we are living in a strange world where domination and imperialism has been the ever present and there is nothing tangible that you or I can do about it except perhaps reinforce good values to your children (if you ever decide to have any). Stop taking other people’s battles and start focusing on getting your house in order where you live.

    Be as critical as you like of your fellow Greeks, but take care not to overstep the mark and disown them whilst you still live and breath Greek air. Greece is far from perfect but the land you inhabit has had some notable heroes in years gone by and deserves a certain level of respect that you are denying it with your filthy and trecherous posts.

    The Greek moderates that I know do not have any contempt for any country in the manner that you do. Their main preoccupations is to see their country prosper with the national wealth to trickle down evenly to the people that need it most. Most Greeks I know would rather Greece remain within the western alliance but also have the courage to further her bilateral and multilateral relations with as many countries as possible. Moreover, most moderate Greeks I know would prefer their elected government engage in sweeping micro and macroeconomic reforms so as to bring competiveness and efficiency to their national economy for the betterment of their people. Your views thus far, especially your deep hatred for the Russian government and segments of the Greek population, do not strike me as a truly moderate person. In fact, moderate Greeks do not take part in foreign blogs and talk down their nation and accuse it of treachery. The only time you could be forgiven is if you identified flaws in the Greek character or nation-state and offered worthwhile solutions for their improvement. You would never ever put forward suggestive comments such as the ones you have made insinnnuating bluntly that Greece is a treacherous nation state covertly undermining the EU and NATO. You accuse me of not having the guts to upload photos of my self and/or to reveal my full name but I wonder if you have the courage of your convictions to openly profess your views against Greece and Greeks within Greek society. I bet you wold be condemned and assaulted forthwith by not only extremists but by other moderates whose sensibilities you will have insulted.

    Grow up malaka and don’t be such a hater. If you insist on continuously denegrading your land and your people, I hope you have the courage to change your name and leave Greece for good, not for econonic reasons, but for a change of nationality and sense of identity. If you refuse to do even this, I hope you get in the way of a bus (I’m sorry).

    This wraps up my engagement with you and I will not write further!

    You are welcome to have the last say you trecherous coward.

    Dimitris

    PS

    I’d hate to think what you would do if Greece was ever invaded by an enemy combatant. My guess is you would run away or side with the enemy and piss on your people, you lousy disgrace!

  • Aris Katsaris

    You repeat the word “malaka” even in latin script, just as some sort of “Greek credentials”?

    I served my term in the Greek army, you were in Australia.

    I pay my taxes to the Greek state. You, if anything, you give to Australia.

    “Why is it that many countries in the EU along with the US have recognized FYROM with the name “Macedonia”?”

    Let’s see the map: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Macedonia_naming_dispute.svg

    You observe that *some* western nations like the USA and the UK use “Republic of Macedonia”. I observe that *all* nations llied to Russia (e.g. Russia, Serbia, China, Belarus, Cuba, North Koreas), that’s what they use.

    So you consider it western treachery, that Western countries support Greece *more* on this issue, that countries like Russia or Serba or China do? You have a weird view of what betrayal means. The more interesting thing is that greek political forces never protested about Russia/Serbia/China recognizing it with this name — also why Greece only blocked FYR Macedonia’s entry into NATO (even if she used FYROM as a name), but she wasn’t blocked in the Council of Europe.

    Perhaps because even this name dispute is used by the servants of the Kremlin to serve Russian interests, not Greek ones. Russia didn’t mind a new nation joining the Council of Europe (which she also belongs in) — she did mind a new nation joining NATO. So Greece blocked its entry into NATO, but not into the Council of Europe. Strange coincidence that.

    Similarly you Russian puppet don’t mind that *Russia* recognized it as “Macedonia”, you only mind about USA recognizing it as such! It seems that you care about this issue only so far as you can use it to attack the West.

    Also, can you stop the silliness of chasing me from forum to forum, and posting double messages? Don’t I suffice to you once. Perhaps you’re paid by the word from Kremlin, but I’m doing it on free and on my spare time.

    And btw, your pretend “concern” for me in the other forum, about how someone may come hurt me because of my (supposedly) anti-hellenic message, is really quite clearly a threat of bodily harm — nobody can believe that you’re really concerned me when you just declared me a traitor (for accusing your Russian masters) and you also said that you hope I get hit by a bus.

    But you don’t have the courage to stay it out rights. You nazis murder and stab and threaten, but always hide behind your masks and your anonymity, while us democrats still fight and die for our beliefs (not that I really believe you’ll do anything, you’re just an anonymous coward, and you’ve revealed throughout the discussion that you’re just an ignorant bozo detached from anything really happening in Greece)

  • WiseSpartan

    Listen here Mister Paranoia….

    You’re getting boring and rather tedious with your repeated references to the Kremlin. If you have an issue with the Russians, go to the stupid Russian embassy and sort your differences out!

    I’m not a supporter of the Russians, never been to Russia and, frankly don’t give a shit about Russia, Russians, or Putin and his dog. Get it through your thick head that I have nothing to do with Russia as much as you would like to think so.

    Some Russian bitch must have come into your life and screwed you over and another Ukrainian lady must have passed by afterward and given your dick the biggest hard on! I don’t know what else would explain your love for Ukraine, disgust for all things Russian, and your association of me with Putin, the Kremlin, Putin’s dog, and his fricken mistress!

    Please take your Russian grievances to the Russians, I am not Russian, never have been, and do not intend in becoming any time soon.

    By the same token, redirect your references of Nazis to those who are…. I am not….. For your information the Nazis started in Germany and not in Russia which you tend to associate these terms “Russia” and “Nazi”….

    Furthermore, I am a supporter of Greece remaining both in the EU and in NATO,,,, Just because I poimted some contradictions and double standards of Greece’s supposed allies it doesn’t mean that I support fucken Russia!

    As for completing your military obligations in Greece, congratulations to you! This is not such an achievement as you profess because it is obligatory and if you failed to have done so you will have been subject to fines and imprisonment you bird brain!

    I didn’t complete my service because to all intensive purposes I am exempt as Greek permanent resident living abroad. In any event I have contributed and continue to contribute to Greece on a voluntary basis and not because at I am paid or because I am obliged as you are.

    Yes, I take pride in my Greek lineage but make no mistake it is Australia has looked after me and provided me with equality of opportunity not the bankrupt and inept country that we call Greece. As bankrupt and inept as it is (a basket case actually), I love it and support it every way I can. You in the other hand have been treacherous to Greece’s national interests and have disparaged it in all forums you partake in.

    Your stupid obsession with the Russians is clouding your perception and feeding your propaganda. I’ve never met anyone else in my life from Greece who such a Russo-phobe as you…..Booo Ari, Putin is behind you…!

    As for my interest to protect my privacy on the Internet don’t confuse this with your stupidity to publish your handsome profile…I am not such a megalomaniac as you where I need to see my name and photo published to score brownie points. The real coward in this exchange is you because you disseminate anti Greek propaganda on the intetmet and won’t have the balls to do so in public…

    As for the silly comment of mine about a bus hitting you, I took it off almost immediately as I put it on and wasn’t aware that you had received it. My withdrawal of it unilaterally was because I ackowledge that it is out of character for me to personalise matters and I teally mean you no harm.

    The reason why I wrote on the other blog was essentially to embarrass you to the other Greeks by pointing out the traitor that you really are. I cannot see how I have formed a wrong impression of you when you categorically repeated and confirmed that Greece is acting covertly to bring out the downfall of the EU and NATO. How on earth can you imagine a prosperous Greece within the EU family of nations when you go on English language forums telling others Greece (your very own nation) is a traitor plotting for their demise. If this doesn’t make you a traitor, what does? why should you be annoyed by being compared to EPHIALTES? He was a traitor just as you are…. According to the 300 movie he was an ugly looking guy as well… Admittedly, you are hardly an Adonis yourself…. In any case I should leave this issue between you and your maker….(I already understand that you’re an Athiest…. I have no issues with that).

  • Aris Katsaris

    Didn’t you say that you will not write further?

    “Some Russian bitch must have come into your life screwed you over and another Ukrainian lady must have passed by afterward and given your dick the biggest hard on! ”

    No, I’ve never made any personal acquiantance with either Russian nor Ukrainian people, whether ladies, bitches or otherwise. Despite your obsession about thinking this has to do with ethnicities, It really doesn’t have to do with such — I have nothing against people of Russian ethnicity, who suffer also (indeed *mainly*) from their government’s fascism.

    “For your information the Nazis started in Germany and not in Russia”

    Yes, in the 1930s & 40s, Nazis started in Germany. During the cold war, the remnants allied themselves with the USA. And after the Cold War, the nazis all over Europe again shifted alliances, to now join Russia, considering Putin an opponent of the supposed “Zionist-controlled” Europe and America.

    You should be informed about the fascist ideology of Alexander Dugin , a good pal of Greece’s current foreign minister, and also a good pal of antisemites, racists, nazis and other fascists the world over. (See http://anton-shekhovtsov.blogspot.gr/2015/01/aleksandr-dugin-and-syriza-connection.html )

    “Furthermore, I am a supporter of Greece remaining both in the EU and in NATO,,,,”

    So does Alexander Dugin — so that Greece serves Russian interests inside the EU and NATO.

    And on my part I’m a supporter of Greece having referendums on whether it wants to remain part of each of these or not. If we want to military or economically ally ourselves with Russia, that’s our right too. It’s the pretense and the hypocrisy that I can’t stand; being false allies.

    “The real coward in this exchange is you because you disseminate anti Greek propaganda on the intetmet and won’t have the balls to do so in public…”

    I don’t have the ‘balls’ to do it in public? What are you talking about? I speak these same beliefs in public, and never hidden any of them. Are you just calling me a coward for not being a professional *politician*? Did you just insult as cowards every non-politician in the world?

    “How on earth can you imagine a prosperous Greece within the EU family of nations when you go on English language forums telling others Greece (your very own nation) is a traitor plotting for their demise”

    Well that depends on whether I actually believe it or not, doesn’t it? And I do.

    Are you really arguing that saying “The Greek government is a puppet of Kremlin” would would be treasonous against Greece even if it was *true* that the Greek government is looking to obeying Kremlin’s interests above the interests of its own people?

    As for your bizarre comparisons between me and Ephialtes, you should remember that in the conflict between west and east, the Greeks back then represented the *west*. And it was Ephialtes who obeyed and cooperated with the eastern invader, as Russia-lovers now are doing. While others argue for a strong united defense against the invader.

  • WiseSpartan

    I am curious as to why you so conveniently omitted responding to the suppression and denial of the human rights of a number of people around the world since you are an anti-imperialist who condemns organised state aggression.

    One notable case mentioned was about the “state” of Israel and the continuous occupation and subjugation of the hapless Palestinians whose repeated pleas for self determination have fallen on deaf ears and who continue to receive the wrath of the Zionist machine and who see illegal settlements continuing incessantly. I also made reference to the imperialist tendencies of the U.S. against Iran to contain it from acquiring the technology to acquire a weapon that Israel and the U.S. had in abundance.

    Why did you not comment on the double standards of the West in this regard and why didn’t you reaffirm your humanist views here?

    I am starting to wonder if you are actually a Greek Jew with an anti Russian agenda…. That would make perfect sense on a number of levels… It would explain why your allegiance to Greece is non-existent, it would explain why you’re an Athiest, and it would also explain your middle of the road approach to Greek politics as a comfort zone for Greece’s Jews … after all. Adherents to the extreme right or extreme left both espouse concerns on the Jewish lobby and its political influence around the world. Of course, this might also explain why your English is quite good…. Perhaps you were rather privileged and had a private schooling in some American college in Athens…. It’s all starting to make sense now…

    Of course , you no doubt you will refer to me as anti-Semite… Because it is convenient for you to do so…all part of the political correctness defence mechanism to silence majorities within a population… I think I’ve finally worked you out… You’re a Jew living in Greece and ungrateful to it.

    Perhaps you can read up on YouTube about Father Nathaniel….. I’m sure you’ll know he is…. A former Jew who covnerted to Orthodox Christianity and resides permanently in Russia…. No doubt, he’ll make your blood boil….. Happy viewing!!!

  • Aris Katsaris

    “I am curious as to why you so conveniently omitted responding to the suppression and denial of the human rights of a number of people around the world since you are an anti-imperialist who condemns organised state aggression”

    I hadn’t even noticed you had mentioned Israel and Iran before this. What, did you seriously think that I had read all your insane babble in your longer posts? I barely skimmed through most of it, and just picked a handful of paragraphs to answer to. You can’t tire me out by simply writing long stuff, because I will just ignore most of it.

    But as you repeat the points, let me respond:
    – I do oppose Israel’s west bank settlements, and I condemn such settlements as a clear illustration of Israel’s imperialism, and I support the Palestinians’ right to establish an independent nation.
    – I believe all countries should have the right to nuclear weaponry. I oppose the attempts of USA and Israel to prevent Iran from acquiring such. Instead they should be arming *all* countries with nuclear weapons. For example if Ukraine had kept its nuclear weapons rather than surrendering them, Russia would be more cautious about hurting them now.

    “I am starting to wonder if you are actually a Greek Jew with an anti Russian agenda..”

    Calling me a “jew”, you still attempt to blame everything I do on my supposed ethnicity. And yet you still pretend to not be a nazi, even though you can’t actually seem to be able to comprehend PEOPLE HAVING CHARACTERISTICS THAT DON’T DEPEND ON THEIR ETHNICITY!

    For your information, nope, I’m not Jewish (though I would certainly not be ashamed if I was). To forestall your next guess, I’m not gay either, even though I likewise oppose the oppression of gay people and support gay rights.

    I’m really not some weird riddle, I’m not *hiding* anything relevant to how I formed my political or religious beliefs. I was born to Greek parents, who have Greek ancestry as far back as I know. They were/are Christian Orthodox, though not particularly devout one, and I was raised as a Christian Orthodox, though again not particularly devoutly. I became an atheist by a gradual process of slowly losing my faith, like most people do. Though not a communist, I’ve read writings of OAKKE, and just decided they’ve been mostly proven right in their claims about Russia-interests-driven sabotage of Greek economy. And nope, again despite your guesswork I attended public school, and went to a public university.

    If you consider me a bizarre sample of Greekhood, that’s probably because my IQ is Mensa-level — and that’s not an absurd or arrogant claim it just means about as smart as 1 person in 50 (in every two school classes, there’s one kid who’s Mensa level), but it certainly means that if you’re so obsessed in thinking that everything depends on ethnicity, I’ll be an outlier to such. I’m the 2% that you don’t know about, because we are so few that we don’t get media recognition or parliamentary representation.

  • WiseSpartan

    Irrespective of who you are at the end of the day and what you represent, you are entitled to your views.

    You may seek the higher moral ground when you say you do not read the entirety of my “bable” as you put it, but do not deceive yourself in that you haven’t won yourself any more significant length of time in that you have reciprocated with replies pretty much continuousy beyond a 12 hour period.

    To this extent, that was a redundant and arrogant statement to denote that you have control of what you choose to read and what you choose to discard. In fact, if what you say is correct, then it suggests you are selective in responding out of context to those words and phrases that fulfil the allegory positions you are seeking to make in advance so as to retire your propositions on the type of personality you claim for me to be without actually extending to me the courtesy and obtaining a more balanced perspective of what I have to say. This last paragraph above might sound a little convoluted, but I trust a bright MENSA student like you will be able to extrapolate meaning.

    In relation to your argument for the profileration of nuclear weapons to all countries, I beg to differ in a practical sense as this only heightens the risk of an actual detonation at some point in the future or of a dirty bomb accidentally going off or used in a terrorist rage. Some experts believed and continue to believe that almost universal access to guns in the US acts as a deterrent. We all know that not to be the case by virtue of the random school killings that we hear about every now and then. I’d hate to apply the same logic to nuclear weaponry across the globe. So, much for your intellectual riggour and your balanced perspective, I’d have to deduct point here for you on this one! All this is well and good, the fact is the world is not on an even playing field and nuclear weapons are unfairly held by a few and will never be voluntarily gotten rid off.

    With reference to Israel, the US, and the West more broadly, my objective was merely to highlight the double standards that do exist among nations and political blocs. Do not automatically misunderstand this and confuse it with a supposed Russian obsession on my part that is non-existent. In fact we started this long and tiring exchange because you also assumed and pidgeon holed me as a Nazi, a pro Russian infidel, etc not too dissimilar to my categorisations of you in the first place across the political spectrum.

    If you genuinely believe that double standards do exist, then conventional wisdom would suggest that you shouldn’t be so vociferous pro one way or another as the true lay closer to the middle. In other words, I cannot understand your complete disdain for Russia and Putin when it is apparently obvious that the West is egging him on with its own tactical manuevring and jostling for positions. The difference between me and you is that, whilst you are happy to accuse Putin for his supposed mischievous deeds, you provide blanket protection to the Euro-Atlantic alliance as somehow being impervious to any mischievous deeds of their own as if they are sitting idle and acting in pure defensive positions. You seem to regard the actual hostilities on the ground by Russian allied forces as the aggression and not the background activity that may be conducive for this aggression in the first place.

    Besides, from a national interest point of view what does Greece stand to gain by publicly condemning Russia? For the purposes of consistency, should a Greek government also offer weekly condemnations against all countries -friends and foes- if it perceives the. Acting untoward? Is this the sort of diplomacy that is guaranteed to advance the Greek cause and our collective interests as residents or citizens of Greece. I hope you can also see from my engagement with you that there are certain flaws and inconsistencies with your reasoning that, generally speaking, do not resemble with what on would consider a true political moderate.

    Personally, I’d concern myself less with what Russia or other countries do and I’d stay focused on the strict middle ground where on the one hand I’d recognise and accept the duplicity in foreign relations yet still be prepared to stay with Europe because seemingly it would appear the lesser of two evils. Not that it is important to you what I think, but I feel as if your are being indoctrinated by certain political circles something analogous to a politcal instead of a religious cult where Putin is the proverbial anti-Christ and that you must defeat him by siding with the holy forces of the West as represented through their Messengers on Earth the U.S./NATO/EU etc…. Ari, there’s so much unfairness and hypocrisy in the world and the battle is lost before it can even be won. If you want play the anti-imperialism game, you would be fighting against every state and nation at one time or another from the Babylonians, to the Egyptians, the Ancient Greeks, right to present day USA, Russia, China, Etc….. Is it not time to give up this pretence and focus on your own life and the welfare of your family and friends alone? By logical extension, you could extend to your nation as well who are ,after al,l a collection of families akin to yours more or less.

    That is precisely why am took offence to you because you degraded the Greek government and, by logical extension, the Greek government for duly selecting their representation through the democratic process. This is how our interaction began….

  • WiseSpartan

    Just a quick supplementary comment following a disturbing article I just read about closer ties between Greece’s political representatives and Russia…

    I was hoping ND with a coalition government from the centre would have won the Greek elections. After the result, I was resigned to the fact that people had voted and that I should give this new government of Tsipras a chance. At first he seems charismatic and his firebrand personality may just be what Greece needs in its negotiations with staunch Germans and Eurogroup. I certainly hope for Greece’s sake that he doesn’t drive it out of the Euro and EU…. that would be a disaster for Greece! Disappointingly, Greece’s FM (Kamenos) seems provocative, dangerous, and irresponsible… I dislike his overt references to Russia …

    Greece should stay firmly within the EU and NATO and any relations with Russia should be superficial for the benefit of commerce and cultural exchange NOT for the forging of military alliances!

    Put simply there’s no future for Greece out of the auspices of the EU and into the embrace of Russia… I hope the Greek political representation is not stupid enough to play high risk poker!

    I also hoped for the Germans and Europeans to have made noteworthy concessions to the then Samaras government so as to have given him added creditability that may have swayed the election result.

  • Aris Katsaris

    “so as to retire your propositions on the type of personality you claim for me to be without actually extending to me the courtesy and obtaining a more balanced perspective of what I have to say. ”

    Since from the start, you’ve been making bizarre (and wrong) guesses at my ethnicity, employment status, ancestry, past education, political alignment and so forth, the reality of the matter is that I just have no motivation to extend you a courtesy that you didn’t extend either. Yes, in reality you’re probably not a self-aware nazi, (though you follow a nazi-mentality in seemingly thinking that everything is determined by ethnicity and ancestry, and seemingly confusing the concept of a nation’s government, and the nation itself), in reality you’re probably not directly employed by Kremlin, you’ve just fallen victim to the absurd lying propaganda of those who are.

    But I don’t *like* you, after all you attempted to find personal information about me to mock me with, and you even did a lousy job at that too, So why should I extend ‘courtesy’ to you, when you didn’t either? I think I’ll still be calling you a Kremlin-bought neonazi, as a shorthand for being the unwitting tool of actual Kremlin-bought propagandists and as a shorthand for your bizarre obsession with ethnicity and your fascist claims that opposing the government means that I’m a ‘traitor’,

    “In relation to your argument for the profileration of nuclear weapons to all countries, I beg to differ in a practical sense as this only heightens the risk of an actual detonation at some point in the future or of a dirty bomb accidentally going off or used in a terrorist rage. ”

    I meant more that I support the *right* of every country to have nuclear weaponry, not that I support them having nuclear weapons. Obviously things that are within some countries’ rights, may nonetheless be stupid. e.g. Luxembourg probably has no use for nuclear weapons. Poland probably could use some though. Ukraine and (as you mentioned) Iran, likewise, to defend against Russia and America respectively.

    The thing is that this is not for some foreign power to decide, it’s for the nation in question itself to determine its need.

    “The difference between me and you is that, whilst you are happy to accuse Putin for his supposed mischievous deeds, you provide blanket protection to the Euro-Atlantic alliance as somehow being impervious to any mischievous deeds of their own as if they are sitting idle and acting in pure defensive positions.”

    I condemned the actions of NATO in Kosovo, I’ve condemned the actions of Westerners in Iraq & (in part) in Afghanistan, but in regards to Russia, Europe & NATO’s only crime towards it is that they have been too much *appeasers* towards it, not that they have been too hostile or too aggressive.

    Europe & NATO completely chose to ignore Russia’s splitting of Moldova, they spoken mere token words of opposition in regards to Russia’s horrific crimes in Chechnya, they tolerated its de facto annexation of parts of Georgia — AND ONLY NOW, after Russia goes out of its way to be as blatantly Hitleric as possible, annexing parts of Ukraine using the exact same justification to annex Crimea and Eastern Ukraine as Hitler used to annex Sudetenland — ONLY NOW does the West very reluctantly put some sanctions on Russia, and ONLY NOW does it so very reluctantly speak about providing Ukraine with some so-very-limited support.

    The West *should* be ashamed, because they’ve been and are still being *appeasers* of Russia, much like they had been appeasers of Hitler long ago. What *should* have been happening is that the armies of NATO should have been mobilizing to push back the Russian conqueror, and ensure the integrity and inviolability of Ukraine’s borders. What *should* have been happening is that countries like Poland that are in direct threat from Russians should be getting equipped with nuclear missiles as we speak.

    So, you think that I don’t condemn the West? I condemn it much more than you do, it’s just that I condemn it in the *opposite direction* than you do – they’re selfish and nearsighted appeasers of wannabe-Hitlers like Putin, same way that before WW2 they had been selfish and nearsighted appeasers of Hitler himself.

    “By logical extension, you could extend to your nation as well who are ,after al,l a collection of families akin to yours more or less.”

    I preferably extend it to the whole human species in its entirety: It’s the difference between humanists and nationalists.

  • WiseSpartan

    Ari,

    Your language and expression is fluent, however much of what you have said thus far in our many exchanges is extremist in nature and overwhelming biased toward a view that you espouse which is in its core, anti Russian or anti-Russian government.

    Your preoccupation with Putin’s Russia has stifled your ability to have a sensible discussion on the very subject of ‘imperialism’ that you claimed to be vehemently opposed to. Moreover, you expressed your support to notions of territorial sovereignty, respect for the law, human rights, and a myriad of notions/concepts consistent with the view of a ‘humanist’ person who politically belongs somewhere in the centre of the political spectrum. In fact, you have described yourself as a ‘moderate’.

    This is where it starts to unravel and you begin to contradict yourself in almost every way. Firstly, upon commencement of our exchange, you referred yourself as someone who strongly dislikes imperialist powers and you associated Putin’s Russia as a classic example of one through its involvement in Ukraine. With the same breath you lent your support to the Euro-Atlantic alliance which, presumably according to your logic, represents the antithesis to ‘imperialism’ as you saw it. Moreover, you reiterated that Greece’s best interests lay with Europe and NATO and not with Russia who represented for you the ‘imperialist’ power given the circumstances. However, when I dared to challenge this proposition of yours and provided numerous examples of foul play by the West in terms of their support of imperialist regimes around the world, you branded me as a Nazi and supporter of Putin and proceed to allege that I was getting paid by the Kremlin and that the government in Russia is my Master.

    Notwithstanding the fact that I vehemently rejected such epithets and categorisation of me, you nevertheless proceeded your anti-Russian government crusade and maintained the absurd notion that I am working for the Kremlin in a formal sense and that I was a Nazi. In fact, even in your latest post you acknowldge that, in all probability I may not be employed by the Kremlin but you considered it fit to continue to refer to me as a Nazi regardless because you claimed that I am of the view people’s fate was pre determined by their DNA, race, etc. Your comments here are quite disconcerting at the very least and not what one would expect from an individual who proudly refers to themself as a ‘moderate’ voice of reason. This an important observation that must not go unnoticed as I have never stated that I was a supporter of any side in the Ukraine-Russia conflict. Morever, I have not expressed any personal views in terms of the fate of the individual and whether or not it is determined purely upon their genetic makeup, environmental conditioning, or any other factor. As such it is slandourous and provocative to make an unsubstantiated allegation of this kind as it would appear you have prejudiced me based on a narrow interpretation of where you think I must belong on the ideological spectrum. Admittedly, I have also made a series of presumptions about you as well, though I have accepted at face value your responses in relation to these. Regretfully, however, you have denied extending me the same benefit of doubt when I have rejected your allegations and categorisations of me (as to whom I represent and if I am working for the Kremlin or not). Again, it is important to bear in mind that your stance in denying me the same benefit of doubt as I have extended to you is suggestive once again that you are not quite the pacifist and moderate that you claim to be.

    In intellectual discourse, it is important to be allowed to challenge one’s ideas and to seek out inconsistencies in one’s argument. As such, my identification of inconsistencies in your argument in terms implicating members of the Euro-Atlantic alliance with imperialist tendencies (in addition to those of Russia) has met with your disdain and accusatory language suggesting that I bat for the ‘other’ side. In fact, your flawed views became entrenched when I sought to provide an objective account of the Russian government’s response in terms of its perspective on the conflict. Again, this point must not be lost. My account was from the perspective of the Russian government as has been expressed in various media. That is, I was not purporting to have been an ‘insider’ or official spokesperson for the Kremlin; rather reiterating for the purpose of a balanced discussion, the views of one of the two quarrelling sides in the conflict. Regretfully, your inability to accept an alternative point of view is suggestive that you are not objective and capable of engaging in a sensible and balanced discussion. Again, this places you at odds with your description of yourself as a ‘moderate’ who has humanist tendencies and respects what is fair and proper. Hence, I have demonstrated your hypocritical position in our debate and the inherent flaws and inconsistencies in your arguments and overal demeanour.

    On the subject of nuclear weapons and the rights of a state to acquire these, I am perplexed with your position as it is inherently incosistent with notions of humanism and peace that you have supposedly espoused. It is incomprehensible how any weapon of mass destruction should be considered a ‘right’ for a state to obtain if it elected to do so. Again, one would think that a moderate commentator (supposedly you) who is peace loving, a humanist, and who supports human rights would NOT hold such a view. Even allowing for the notion of ‘self-defence’, a weapon of mass destruction is such a risky proposition that has consequences beyond comprehension and cannot conceivably be acceptable by any race of people who regard themselves as civilised and defendors of ‘human rights’. It is a great irony as well as a case in point that both members of the Euro-Atlantic alliance and Russia are armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons. If anything, this fact supports my earlier proposition that both the Euro-Atlantic Alliance and Russia are equally imperialist in nature and a menace to the nucleur-free world. Moreover, it is absurd and irresponsible for you -as a moderate thinker- to suggest that NATO should have adopted a forceful (presumably you are suggesting militaristic) stance against Russia for recent conflicts in Chechnya, South Osetia, Georgia, etc The absurdness and irresponsibility of your statement lies with the fact that Russia has the largest arsenal of nucleaur weapons in the world. Just imagine if the conflict on the ground escaled progressively to the potential use of nucleur weapons in a mutually assured destruction case. As improbable as this may have been, it is not a risk worth taking for the same of the world and humanity. Again, so much for a proponent of peace, respect for the law, human rights, and an anti-imperialist who is an oppoent of ‘extremism’.

    As for your comments that you do not like me, well I must admit this throws me back somewhat and I have to work the courage to live with it and move on. There may be a few sleepless nights at first, but I am hopeful I will overcome the anxiety associated with you not liking me. You see, ever since I was a little boy I wanted to be in your fan club and this is trully shattering. I am fearful that you may disengage with me all together.

    As regards to your comments about me sourcing personal information about you and mocking you, you are consciously misrepresnting the situation and making a false statement. I sourced information about you on the world wide web that was freely available as it had been wilfully provided by you. A peson with your intelligence should understand that social media like Facebook contain personal data that may be universally accessible by the general public subject to your privacy restrictions. Unlike a member of the general public, you claim to be a Programmer in the Java language and you ought to be aware of this situaiton. It is one thing to hack or breach one’s private network and another to use data that has been freely provided. Admittedly, I did berate and mock you for your physical appearence but this is only after you had insulted me with categorisations of being a Nazi and paid by the Kremlin. In any event, I have made a number of concessions to you in terms of jumping the gun and proofiling you. Interestingly, you have not reciprocated in kind and to this point have not apologised for your insulting categorisations of me.

    Lastly, on the question of treachery, I am confident that a majority of sensible and rational Greeks would find your earlier comments against Greece as insulting, in poor taste, and even treacherous. It is one thing to provide candid feedback on the strengths and weaknesses -as you see them- of the Greek economy, the Greek state, or even Greek mindset and another to accuse Greece (your very country) as being trecherous for the EU and NATO.

    Please take some time to reflect on what you have said from the very beginning, how you have presented yourself, and how you have gone off course from what you claim to be and represent (anti-imperialism, respect for territorial sovereignty, respect for human rights, etc).

    In conclusion, you are a self-serving and lying hypocrite with a paranoia compex and an enduring political bias. You are prepared to partake in a debate but are not prepared to be influenced by a superior view if and when it comes your way. It is evident that you feel superior to others and, quite probably, your command of the English language has inflated your sense of self worth ability to change the narrative. I have successfully demonstrated that you are a FAKE.

    Without wanting to boost my sense of ego, I believe my engagement with you has been frustrating primarily because of your failure to subdue me intellectually. In any event, I never sought a contest with you, merely I wanted to bring to your attention some inherent flaws in your arguments.

    All the best to you and hope you learn to appreciate what it means to be born a Greek! 🙂

    Dimitris